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02 May 2011 @ 04:47 pm
Yeah I'm Petty Like That  
‎I think it's natural to have mixed feelings about Osama's death. I'm sure they hoped to capture him but he chose suicide by cop, essentially. I hope this gives families some closure. I personally am glad we won't have any more Osama videos trying to influence our elections. But this won't stop war or terrorism.

OTOH, my first reaction was along the lines of "ding dong the witch is dead" and while I was conscious of all the complexities at that moment, part of me wanted to just set it aside and be glad that whatever else happened, he was no longer our problem and secondly, that a Democrat (and someone who had so recently taken all this racist crap over a birth certificate) got credit. I thought, take that, TRUMP. And Bush. So yeah, not a pretty part of human nature but that's where I'm really at. I'll keep working on that universal compassion thing.

Some favorite quotes being passed around today:

" Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King, Jr

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain

Bill Maher:
Somali pirates, Gaddafi's son, now bin Laden - do NOT fuck with Obama, he's Gangsta!!

Albert Brooks:
Bin Laden to St. Peter: "What do you mean they're no longer virgins?"

Gin and Tacos:
Apparently the conservative talking point is "Obama is taking too much credit for this." I guess he should have been more humble and landed on an aircraft carrier in a flightsuit.

ETA: http://gizmodo.com/#!5798029/those-mlk-and-mark-twain-quotes-youre-spreading-on-facebook-and-twitter-are-fake
litlebananalitlebanana on May 3rd, 2011 12:30 am (UTC)
I'm hoping this will get Obama reelected...

The celebration irks me a little. I actually cried today remembering 9/11, having been living in NY at the time and knowing so many people personally affected. I do think this brings some closure and I feel for the family members. I just can't imagine smiling or celebrating in association with that day. I doubt anyone who lost a parent or child on 9/11 was out dancing in the street today.
Tapatitapati on May 3rd, 2011 01:10 am (UTC)
I hope it helps get him re-elected too. :)

I thought the jumping up and down and popping champagne was unseemly and I was mindful that the whole world could see that footage. It's not a touchdown!

I cried at one point too, as I watched an interview with a family member of a 9/11 victim from California.

I could understand why New Yorkers were especially happy.
litlebananalitlebanana on May 3rd, 2011 01:21 am (UTC)
Yeah, exactly. You go out and celebrate things that are happy occasions, like a winning football game or a birthday or a graduation. Not something that reminds you of the death of thousands of people.
Tapatitapati on May 3rd, 2011 08:29 pm (UTC)
Maybe there needs to be a new millennium etiquette guide.
Mari Adkinsmariadkins on May 3rd, 2011 03:06 am (UTC)
if you both think back, the radical islams were doing the same thing when the towers fell. imho, dancing in the street over news is a human reaction - and i suppose which "side" you're "on" determines how you see it.
Mari Adkinsmariadkins on May 3rd, 2011 03:08 am (UTC)
from a friend of mine on facebook:

"Well said, Mr. Zimmerman. The only thing I can add is for people to remember how they felt 11 September 2001 when the televisions showed pictures of others dancing in the streets and celebrating the fall of the towers, and then put the shoes on the other feet."

he also shared this link:

Tapatitapati on May 3rd, 2011 08:24 pm (UTC)
yes I didn't like it then and it was cringe-worthy to see Americans doing it. I felt the more solemn anthem-singing was more fitting to mourning this last 9/11 connected moment and all the feelings it brought up for us.
Mari Adkinsmariadkins on May 3rd, 2011 03:11 am (UTC)
When any government . . . undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.

Robert A. Heinlein, If This Goes On...
lunaetstellaelunaetstellae on May 3rd, 2011 03:20 am (UTC)
I am all over the place with this. Seeing more footage of the twin towers pushed me over the edge and I was on a crying jag once again, as if it happened last week. The sheer horror of those images is like a wound that never heals, and while I can understand the feelings of relief and, yes, even joy, at the news of Osamas death, I don't feel it. Instead, I feel the sick dread of even more terrorist acts, 'retaliation' for this killing of Osama. Our own lives becoming more restricted by the security alerts, more airport drama, everyone waiting for the other shoe to fall. It's inevitable. Even a news headline this morning pissed me off: "What's the Taliban's next move?", as if baiting them to get back at us in even more spectacularily destructive moves than the World Trade Center destruction. . . . the damn media ever meddling.

I voted for Obama too, but have been very disapointed as of late. I have mixed feelings about this killing. I am bothered that they dumped Osama's body so quickly; I want to see the photos, I want proof he is dead. It seems so convenient that suddenly, now, he is claimed to be killed. . . . .Obama needs something to restore american's trust, something to pull us out of our own jobless and financial despair, something to rally us. I will never forget John McCain's attempt to use the twin towers footage to his 'advantage' in his Convention speech, it was the lowest move I have even seen a politician pull. . . . and it was done to attempt to manipulate the voters. Same thing for me, this event now. . . we've been after Osama for over 9 years; we never before worked out what we'd do with his body that we had to do a quickie burial at sea? No photos shown to the American public? It doesn't add up, and as much as I want to believe, I need more proof. This is, after all, the high-stakes political game in America; votes are raised or lost depending on the issues the public is focused on. We've been manipulated by our politicians before, and I am not ready to just jump on the bandwagon of celebration when I think there is a lot more to this that we don't know, and will never be told. The end result is voter distraction, voter approval ratings, evasion of issues the voters want addressed. This is a very troubling last 24 hours, and I hope we get the proof irrefutable.
Tapatitapati on May 3rd, 2011 08:28 pm (UTC)
I believe we will. The rationale for quick disposal is that by his religion it is required. The rationale I heard for not using burial is to not provide a shrine for his followers or have to deal with WHERE to bury him. No family members wanted his body. The Saudis didn't want his body.

I am sure they documented everything they could document, knowing that doubts would come from their political rivals. The entire operation was captured with helmet cams. Some reporters have already reported seeing a photo of his head with gunshot plainly visible. Sure anything could be faked, I guess. But I bet DNA has been provided to more than one government that is concerned with this issue.
carmy_w: heinlein quote by [info]sinstralpridecarmy_w on May 3rd, 2011 09:57 pm (UTC)
I like all your quotes, even if they are just urban legends!

You know, when Bill Maher sticks his foot in his mouth, it's hip deep, but I LOVE his quotes! HAHAHA!

The gizmodo link said that was Clarence Darrow, rather than Mark Twain. But it sounds more like Twain to me.

And on the "virgins"; I remember hearing a morning radio show joking back in 2001 about it being "Virginians," and introducing the martyr to all our warlike founding fathers, who proceed to beat the tar out of said martyr.

I was a bit uncomfortable with the cheering, but I can entirely agree with a BIG DOSE of sweet revenge. So I guess I feel very satisfied by the action.

And the other conservative talking point they are spouting is "See? Our illegal waterboarding worked!"