July 18th, 2005


Judging, Discerning...Let's worry about our own actions please

Those who have been following my conservative/liberal dialogue ponderings may be interested in the following:


Apparently conservative Christians are tired of having liberals quote the "Judge not as ye be judged" quote and other such things (he who is without sin may cast the first stone comes to mind), so Karen at Some Have Hats wrote about why she needs to discern (not judge) Evil so she can avoid becoming a "bad fish" who gets cast out of God's net into Hell. I thought it was enough to obey the Pope and the Bible, go to Church, confess your sins, and take communion, according to her faith. But I confess I don't know a lot about Catholicism. It's been a long time since I studied it. (33 years, actually.)

I think we'd be less likely to throw the nonjudgmental quotes back at them if they were less inclined to preach the rules of their religion to those of us who are not members. If I am going to hell, leave me to my handbasket please! I promise not to grab you as I'm cast from the net.

I'm tired and have a headache so I guess I'm a bit more snarky than normal tonight. Sorry!

Cool, I've been banned

I managed to recover these two comments leading up to my banning...apparently Karen changed her mind after her comment:

Great, and while we're doing all this discerning, can we discern the difference between Evil with a capital E, as in brutal dictators, serial killers, child abusers, and all those who delight in and profit from the suffering of others, and those of us who are doing our best to follow our moral code--it simply differs from yours? As long as we don't expect you to follow it in your own life, I don't see the harm in that.

The Hindu moral code, as set forth by scriptures predating the Bible, states that those who eat meat will suffer in hell (a temporary hell at least). Fortunately most of them are not in your face about that but recognize that your culture and scriptures disagree. How tiresome would it be if they marched outside of McDonald's every day with signs saying "Meat eaters will burn in hell"?

Somehow we all have to live together in the same net and we can all trust that God knows our hearts and minds in a way our fellow humans cannot.

Posted by: Tapati | July 19, 2005 01:38 AM

Tapati, I have been trying not to ban you, but I'm really tired of this. This is a Catholic blog where Catholics get together and discuss our Church's many problems. I don't mistreat anyone and I'm polite to everyone and all that jazz. But I don't give a damn what the Hindu's believe or that it predates my religion, and I have LIVED all that New Age mumbo jumbo and it just about did me in, so I am not going to host a site that explains to the world that there's no difference between my Major World Religion and anybody else's. I don't go to Wiccan blogs and rant at them to understand Catholicism. I've never banned anyone, don't make me start now.

Posted by: Karen | July 19, 2005 02:14 AM

The response I was working on but can't post now, though I sent it in email:

Karen, you completely misunderstand me and perhaps I misunderstand you. You say you're only discussing the Church's problems and internal disputes, but you and your readers frequently refer to liberals in derogatory ways and imply or say outright that we have no moral standards, anything goes, and make various statements about how society ought to be--including that freedom of religion ought not to have been upheld by the Supreme Court.

My analogy regarding Hindu rules (also a Major World Religion last time I looked) is that any of us could say people of other faiths are "evil" simply because they don't follow our faith's values. I say that publicly at least we need to be more tolerant than that in America. I've certainly never said that there's no difference between the many faiths! Nor do I care much whether you understand mine or not.

You say you're always polite and mistreat no one, but I've never seen any retraction of your derogatory and mocking comments about the members other faiths asked to participate in the inter-faith ceremony for the new mayor. I have NO problem with you saying your leader shouldn't have invited them--but that's not THEIR fault.

I do think that qualifies as mistreatment--it's public ridicule in a publicly accessible blog. I can't even imagine how you'd react if someone made fun of Catholicism in a similar way. (And just fyi--"new age mumbo jumbo" and "wacky" are just a couple of the derogatory terms you've thrown at minority religions in the U.S. "Polite to everyone"?)

I think it's sad that your personal faith seems more dependent on tearing down others rather than affirming what is good and beautiful in your own religion. You can't be a good fish until you finish labeling all of us "bad" fish?

If you had a genuine sense of security about what you believe and how you express it, my polite comments wouldn't disturb you so much.

I've offered to stop commenting more than once, so you will see no more--in your space, anyway.




I want to note that the only comments I will ever erase here are those that consist of name calling, blatant ridicule, profanity, vulgarity, and the like. Any reasonable disagreement post will remain untouched--though I reserve the right to comment on it myself.

This was all in relation to the topic I linked to in a previous entry today.